Hottest June on record, extreme weather events, Canadian forest fires, Antarctica shrinking, insane sea temperature stats, the four hottest days ever ... this is really bad, isn't it?
Ice Age is not relevant to pre industrialisation. Even the so called "little ice age" didn't change temperatures globally any where near as much as they are changing now. We don't need lethal heat waves, massive fires, droughts, all of which are increasing. We don't need dead crops.
Oxygen doesn't absorb strongly in the infrared, co2 does. It is true water vapour is also a greenhouse gas and the Earth relies on it, however if there are more greenhouses gases its temperature will rise, and co2 is increasing. To claim co2 levels are too low makes you a mega moron.
Seeing it is irrelevant also. You can't see infrared radiation.
We reached tipping point a while ago. Scientists knew this was coming for years and years but they were ignored or vilified. I’m not a scientist but I have worked around them and they were convinced. I’ve believed it was coming because I’m a gardener and I’ve been aware of how the seasons have changed, how birds I grew up seeing have disappeared. People don’t want to acknowledge it because it means radically changing the way they live even in less affected countries like ours. And as a society we are so docile and apathetic about politics aren’t we? I remain astonished at how many teachers and NHS workers supported the Tories in the 2017 general election, how many people believed the lies about Brexit and, even now, still refuse to admit the appalling damage being done by the Tories to our country. Why should they therefore believe that human activity has altered the climate? We are still building houses in vulnerable coastal areas, still pumping sewage into our water system and still using chemicals which destroy our ecosystem. So yes we are going to destroy this planet on our lifetime. It’s already happening in countries around the world. Our politicians are too stupid and/or too corrupt to do anything about it. I have adult children and young grandchildren and I wish I didn’t because their lives are going to become increasingly difficult. It’s so sad.
Still, at least the folks at the Furnace Creek Visitor Center in ᴅᴇᴛʜ Valley have replaced their thermometer with one that shows Celsius as well as Fahrenheit </thudding_sarcasm>
Gotta go after the fossil fuels, especially energy production. Trying to convince consumers to use less is pointless, since most of the CO2 emissions happens in production.
Within a free market system, this problem will continue as long as it is legal and financially viable. That can be changed. I propose to put a tax on fossil fuels, which starts moderate but increases every year until green energy is significantly cheaper. Use the funds for investing in the infrastructure necessary to generate the energy through various sustainable means.
It won't change everything - flights will probably continue to be powered by oil for example. But it will help a lot.
The stagnated taxation approach will mitigate the disruption to society. Many would say it's too slow, but unfortunately any approach which is too disruptive will be rejected in favour of calmly embracing the apocalypse. People will not accept more drastic measures until climate change itself becomes highly disruptive to their lives. Any politician pushing more drastic measures is unlikely to retain office. So we need to take an approach that people will tolerate.
"Trying to convince consumers to use less is pointless, since most of the CO2 emissions happens in production." What? How is it pointless if buying less will reduce production?
Because that's like if you call your landlord asking them to fix a leak, and your landlord just tells you to "use less water". It doesn't really solve the problem, it puts the responsibility in the wrong place and in many cases it's not feasible.
If we address the issues of climate change at a corporate level, we can greatly impact emission levels in a reliable, sustainable and ethically sound way. If we just tell people to stop consuming goods and services associated with emissions, what will happen is probably nothing because it just won't happen. People don't know what to avoid, often don't have much choice about it and many aren't willing to change even if they could. Change needs to be forced, and the only practical point to force it is in the supply chain. Extreme measures would be to simply ban or limit fossil fuel consumption, but without giving the system time to adapt that would cause chaos. Hence I propose escalating financial pressure.
It's not an either/or question. I'm not naive enough to think that consumers can change everything, but a lot of the supply comes from the demand. Fact is most people just don't care, simple as that. Not just at the top but at all levels, in fact people use those higher up to justify not changing themselves, as if they aren't higher up than someone else.
Things people could do: veganism, not flying on holiday, car free living, generally buying less for examples clothes and technology. You can buy a lot of that used.
Why would a politician enact a change that forces people to consume less in effect, which is ultimately what is required? If people aren't trying themselves, they don't care, and so will certainly not accept someone else telling them to. There is only so much that can be done without people noticing. Their lives will change. In my opinion for the better because mostly these behaviours as destructive. For example car dominated cities are terrible for everyone. But a lot of people are simply ignorant, or, worse, morons, and don't want change.
The heat we are feeling now was baked in decades ago, the future warming is is now guaranteed and irreversible and is progressing at a pace that climate modelling did not predict. We simply do not know how the effects of abrupt and irreversible climate change are going to play out , other than it is going to be catastrophic for all human and animal life on the planet. 50 C predicted for southern Europe this year after 40C last year and all the attendant wildfires which further heat the atmosphere . The ocean our largest carbon sink gets so hot it becomes a carbon emitter , again triggering devastating feedback loops. What is next year going to look like ? I'm no climate expert but the climate experts are terrified and so should we be. Unfortunately we do not have the political class or cooperative economic system that we need to mount a global coordinated fightback, and we are almost out of time . Capitalism will literally be the end of us.
My stance is with you, we need to look after the planet.
The points where I waver is that temperatures rise or fall depending on where you start.
For example, if we start 5,000,000 years ago temperatures are still well, well below any of the wonderfully accurate (and lately revised) methods of testing.
I also baulk at the phrase ‘on record’ as temperature records really only started (accurately) after accurate thermometers were invented, say about 1750; so, let’s round this to the last 300 years.
I am not a mathematician, but I wouldn’t try to predict any future trend in numbers having only 300 years out of say 4 billion years but even at 5 million years I would have 0.006% information to look at.
Tom, as above the only evidence we have of previous tempertues is 'sketchky'. I dont know and I suspect no one knows how fast they changed in previous periods, as the best guides work not in decades but millienieum; however there are those that felel they can move down to thousands of years.
I think climatologists believe it is much more than "sketchy." You aren't in a position to judge the evidence, but they are and say that global temperatures are changing more rapidly.
Wow Tom, that’s a bit harsh. As an ex GM and Commercial Manager I hope I still have enough about me to look at any information, read through it and then be able to reach a judgement.
I think one of the main differences between many of the climate experts and myself is that they are usually paid (sponsored) to reach a conclusion, whilst my views are free.
Do you remember reading the views of the ‘independent experts’ that were sponsored by BAT to show that cigarette smoking wasn’t as harmful as NHS doctors purported. (see Seeking to be seen as legitimate members of the scientific community? An analysis of British American Tobacco and Philip Morris International’s involvement in scientific events | Tobacco Control (bmj.com).
The only paid scientists are for the fossil fuel industry who have an incentive to downplay it, which they did. I'm not aware of the opposite happening.
Moron it is. The only silver lining is people like you will suffer like the rest of us.
Learn what average means and also what increase means. The trend is there. It is getting hotter. Like how can people like you even exist at this point it is just reality denial?
There isn’t a working thermometer on the planet that isn’t always moving, at least a little, in one direction or another. Together, they form an average that’s constantly moving. Suggest you find something else to scare the shit out of yourself with.
... Would imply a “bi-direction” option: up or down the temp’ scale. Easy math. “No idea ... “ was a first impression. Don’t be too hard on yourself, half the planet’s living population likely qualifies being listed on the Climate Change Bullshit (CCB) suckers list. There’s a lot of 🤡 artists out there.
Hilarious to be honest. I can't imagine being as over confident and delusional to think I am an expert in something I never studied and to believe the entire World is hiding a massive conspiracy for some reason.
I live on the Belgian coast now. I can't believe the number of people I see on FB who post an image saying that 32°C 20 years ago was a "nice summer day" & 32°C now is "ARGH! Global warming!", all as a joke, saying we're overreacting, without realising that it's the cumulative effect of all these days together, especially the 40°C+++ in Southern Europe.
I have personally always believed that Global Warming itself is a natural phenomenon (the Earth goes through phases of freezing & cooling naturally), but that this warming event has been accelerated by mans' misuse.
Unfortunately, I will need to purchase a car soon, as I am increasingly more disabled. I do wish that electric cars were more affordable, but I think that that will be some time off. I will, myself, have to purchase a car of 20 years old, which also won't help the situation. But, I am one person. If those that can help, do, it would make a huge difference overall.
As horrendous as climate change is, and I'm not downplaying it at all, I'm even more concerned about mass surveillance and AI and how these things will be used to control us as capitalism falls apart under ecological pressures. I can see the coming decades being very bleak indeed if we don't get our shit together.
No, it is not me that knows more, it is the people who disagree with your claims who work in the field.
"I too cant think of anyone who has a vested interested in taking the oposite view." maybe you can be specific and also not come up with some stupid conspiracy theory. It is well known oil companies produced suspect research for decades.
CO2 rise may be a problem, but the world won't burn.now at 400ppm, it was usually higher than this. See graph of global co2 past 100 million years. Some points to note: 98.5 % of the co2 is dissolved in the ocean. Global warming causes this to release.the global economy is projected to keep on producing co2 at higher levels for many decades even as the western countries go green. If the weather changes from this, we need to get a sensible picture of what this will be based on thpredicted weather from previous periods where co2 was 4000 -2000ppm. If a Mafia group of corporations in the west tell you to give up all of your freedoms to them because of climate change, reject them, and continue with stepwise useful environmental changes based on viable unbiased science, under a democratic system. Climate hysteria seems to be part of a corporate power grab.
Again, you're an idiot. Yes CO2 levels have been higher but life was adapted to it. When CO2 levels change much faster than naturally you have a problem. Also, the past had mass extinction events also. We want to avoid that.
Ice Age is not relevant to pre industrialisation. Even the so called "little ice age" didn't change temperatures globally any where near as much as they are changing now. We don't need lethal heat waves, massive fires, droughts, all of which are increasing. We don't need dead crops.
The facts and scientific consensus are all wrong, and you are right .
Thanks.
Grift implies making money, scientists aren't getting rich on climate change research. "What a joke" applies to you.
Oxygen doesn't absorb strongly in the infrared, co2 does. It is true water vapour is also a greenhouse gas and the Earth relies on it, however if there are more greenhouses gases its temperature will rise, and co2 is increasing. To claim co2 levels are too low makes you a mega moron.
Seeing it is irrelevant also. You can't see infrared radiation.
In the past 60 years CO2 levels have increased by 100ppm. Please stfu
Do you understand what global average means? That is increasing. So you can't cherry pick examples as if things aren't changing overall.
Climate change deniers just look stupider and stupider, but like Brexiters will never admit to being wrong. They will die first (of whatever)
"Btw, don’t crap on the idea of finding a new world to plant our seed." Don't be stupid
good job
We reached tipping point a while ago. Scientists knew this was coming for years and years but they were ignored or vilified. I’m not a scientist but I have worked around them and they were convinced. I’ve believed it was coming because I’m a gardener and I’ve been aware of how the seasons have changed, how birds I grew up seeing have disappeared. People don’t want to acknowledge it because it means radically changing the way they live even in less affected countries like ours. And as a society we are so docile and apathetic about politics aren’t we? I remain astonished at how many teachers and NHS workers supported the Tories in the 2017 general election, how many people believed the lies about Brexit and, even now, still refuse to admit the appalling damage being done by the Tories to our country. Why should they therefore believe that human activity has altered the climate? We are still building houses in vulnerable coastal areas, still pumping sewage into our water system and still using chemicals which destroy our ecosystem. So yes we are going to destroy this planet on our lifetime. It’s already happening in countries around the world. Our politicians are too stupid and/or too corrupt to do anything about it. I have adult children and young grandchildren and I wish I didn’t because their lives are going to become increasingly difficult. It’s so sad.
Still, at least the folks at the Furnace Creek Visitor Center in ᴅᴇᴛʜ Valley have replaced their thermometer with one that shows Celsius as well as Fahrenheit </thudding_sarcasm>
Gotta go after the fossil fuels, especially energy production. Trying to convince consumers to use less is pointless, since most of the CO2 emissions happens in production.
Within a free market system, this problem will continue as long as it is legal and financially viable. That can be changed. I propose to put a tax on fossil fuels, which starts moderate but increases every year until green energy is significantly cheaper. Use the funds for investing in the infrastructure necessary to generate the energy through various sustainable means.
It won't change everything - flights will probably continue to be powered by oil for example. But it will help a lot.
The stagnated taxation approach will mitigate the disruption to society. Many would say it's too slow, but unfortunately any approach which is too disruptive will be rejected in favour of calmly embracing the apocalypse. People will not accept more drastic measures until climate change itself becomes highly disruptive to their lives. Any politician pushing more drastic measures is unlikely to retain office. So we need to take an approach that people will tolerate.
"Trying to convince consumers to use less is pointless, since most of the CO2 emissions happens in production." What? How is it pointless if buying less will reduce production?
Because that's like if you call your landlord asking them to fix a leak, and your landlord just tells you to "use less water". It doesn't really solve the problem, it puts the responsibility in the wrong place and in many cases it's not feasible.
If we address the issues of climate change at a corporate level, we can greatly impact emission levels in a reliable, sustainable and ethically sound way. If we just tell people to stop consuming goods and services associated with emissions, what will happen is probably nothing because it just won't happen. People don't know what to avoid, often don't have much choice about it and many aren't willing to change even if they could. Change needs to be forced, and the only practical point to force it is in the supply chain. Extreme measures would be to simply ban or limit fossil fuel consumption, but without giving the system time to adapt that would cause chaos. Hence I propose escalating financial pressure.
It's not an either/or question. I'm not naive enough to think that consumers can change everything, but a lot of the supply comes from the demand. Fact is most people just don't care, simple as that. Not just at the top but at all levels, in fact people use those higher up to justify not changing themselves, as if they aren't higher up than someone else.
Things people could do: veganism, not flying on holiday, car free living, generally buying less for examples clothes and technology. You can buy a lot of that used.
Why would a politician enact a change that forces people to consume less in effect, which is ultimately what is required? If people aren't trying themselves, they don't care, and so will certainly not accept someone else telling them to. There is only so much that can be done without people noticing. Their lives will change. In my opinion for the better because mostly these behaviours as destructive. For example car dominated cities are terrible for everyone. But a lot of people are simply ignorant, or, worse, morons, and don't want change.
The heat we are feeling now was baked in decades ago, the future warming is is now guaranteed and irreversible and is progressing at a pace that climate modelling did not predict. We simply do not know how the effects of abrupt and irreversible climate change are going to play out , other than it is going to be catastrophic for all human and animal life on the planet. 50 C predicted for southern Europe this year after 40C last year and all the attendant wildfires which further heat the atmosphere . The ocean our largest carbon sink gets so hot it becomes a carbon emitter , again triggering devastating feedback loops. What is next year going to look like ? I'm no climate expert but the climate experts are terrified and so should we be. Unfortunately we do not have the political class or cooperative economic system that we need to mount a global coordinated fightback, and we are almost out of time . Capitalism will literally be the end of us.
My stance is with you, we need to look after the planet.
The points where I waver is that temperatures rise or fall depending on where you start.
For example, if we start 5,000,000 years ago temperatures are still well, well below any of the wonderfully accurate (and lately revised) methods of testing.
I also baulk at the phrase ‘on record’ as temperature records really only started (accurately) after accurate thermometers were invented, say about 1750; so, let’s round this to the last 300 years.
I am not a mathematician, but I wouldn’t try to predict any future trend in numbers having only 300 years out of say 4 billion years but even at 5 million years I would have 0.006% information to look at.
The rate of temperature change is what is most important, and it's much faster.
Tom, as above the only evidence we have of previous tempertues is 'sketchky'. I dont know and I suspect no one knows how fast they changed in previous periods, as the best guides work not in decades but millienieum; however there are those that felel they can move down to thousands of years.
I think climatologists believe it is much more than "sketchy." You aren't in a position to judge the evidence, but they are and say that global temperatures are changing more rapidly.
Wow Tom, that’s a bit harsh. As an ex GM and Commercial Manager I hope I still have enough about me to look at any information, read through it and then be able to reach a judgement.
I think one of the main differences between many of the climate experts and myself is that they are usually paid (sponsored) to reach a conclusion, whilst my views are free.
Do you remember reading the views of the ‘independent experts’ that were sponsored by BAT to show that cigarette smoking wasn’t as harmful as NHS doctors purported. (see Seeking to be seen as legitimate members of the scientific community? An analysis of British American Tobacco and Philip Morris International’s involvement in scientific events | Tobacco Control (bmj.com).
The only paid scientists are for the fossil fuel industry who have an incentive to downplay it, which they did. I'm not aware of the opposite happening.
Chill. Climate change is alarmist bullshit.
Hopefully a joke, otherwise you are a moron.
Keep your mask on, Tom. Get another booster.
Facts: • It’s summer 🌞 north north of the Eq.
• Gets 🔥hot in the summer.
• Some get hotter than others.
Try to keep up.
Climate Change IS BullShit
Moron it is. The only silver lining is people like you will suffer like the rest of us.
Learn what average means and also what increase means. The trend is there. It is getting hotter. Like how can people like you even exist at this point it is just reality denial?
You’re obviously suffering, but it isn’t and will never be from “climate change”, moron 🤡
Keep pushing the agenda, it’s getting old, but does retain a hint of entertainment value..
So the many thousands of thermometers in the sea, land, air and the millions of satellite measurements are all lies then?
There isn’t a working thermometer on the planet that isn’t always moving, at least a little, in one direction or another. Together, they form an average that’s constantly moving. Suggest you find something else to scare the shit out of yourself with.
Climate Change IS Bullshit.
No idea what you are talking about but "in one direction or the other" would imply they would average out to zero
... Would imply a “bi-direction” option: up or down the temp’ scale. Easy math. “No idea ... “ was a first impression. Don’t be too hard on yourself, half the planet’s living population likely qualifies being listed on the Climate Change Bullshit (CCB) suckers list. There’s a lot of 🤡 artists out there.
Hilarious to be honest. I can't imagine being as over confident and delusional to think I am an expert in something I never studied and to believe the entire World is hiding a massive conspiracy for some reason.
No, what you say is nonsense.
“Climate Change IS Bullshit”
A fact printed on every t-shirt and coffee mug you’ll ever see from now on, whether you can see it or not.
I live on the Belgian coast now. I can't believe the number of people I see on FB who post an image saying that 32°C 20 years ago was a "nice summer day" & 32°C now is "ARGH! Global warming!", all as a joke, saying we're overreacting, without realising that it's the cumulative effect of all these days together, especially the 40°C+++ in Southern Europe.
I have personally always believed that Global Warming itself is a natural phenomenon (the Earth goes through phases of freezing & cooling naturally), but that this warming event has been accelerated by mans' misuse.
Unfortunately, I will need to purchase a car soon, as I am increasingly more disabled. I do wish that electric cars were more affordable, but I think that that will be some time off. I will, myself, have to purchase a car of 20 years old, which also won't help the situation. But, I am one person. If those that can help, do, it would make a huge difference overall.
What are they gonna do with all that money when the rest of us are human candlewax dripping off the edge of their flat earth ??? Peace, Maurice
As horrendous as climate change is, and I'm not downplaying it at all, I'm even more concerned about mass surveillance and AI and how these things will be used to control us as capitalism falls apart under ecological pressures. I can see the coming decades being very bleak indeed if we don't get our shit together.
Ah Tom, you know so much, certainly more than I oh the industries salary structures.
I too cant think of anyone who has a vested interested in taking the oposite view.
No, it is not me that knows more, it is the people who disagree with your claims who work in the field.
"I too cant think of anyone who has a vested interested in taking the oposite view." maybe you can be specific and also not come up with some stupid conspiracy theory. It is well known oil companies produced suspect research for decades.
CO2 rise may be a problem, but the world won't burn.now at 400ppm, it was usually higher than this. See graph of global co2 past 100 million years. Some points to note: 98.5 % of the co2 is dissolved in the ocean. Global warming causes this to release.the global economy is projected to keep on producing co2 at higher levels for many decades even as the western countries go green. If the weather changes from this, we need to get a sensible picture of what this will be based on thpredicted weather from previous periods where co2 was 4000 -2000ppm. If a Mafia group of corporations in the west tell you to give up all of your freedoms to them because of climate change, reject them, and continue with stepwise useful environmental changes based on viable unbiased science, under a democratic system. Climate hysteria seems to be part of a corporate power grab.
Again, you're an idiot. Yes CO2 levels have been higher but life was adapted to it. When CO2 levels change much faster than naturally you have a problem. Also, the past had mass extinction events also. We want to avoid that.
Scientists in universities aren't corporate
If you start with an insult you destroy discourse, and weaken your own point in the eyes of others even if you are right.
at this point anyone who denies is wilfully denying it, so there is no saving them