The methodology used to calculate Donald Trump's tariffs is so absurd and economically illiterate that it's challenging to even think of a logical response
"Liberal"? I'm not American, that's American language. Yeah, I call people who praise Trump's actions a moron, as that's why they are. You will of course not explain how any of the things I listed above will be good for the average American, or how the average American benefits from Trump's policies.
I listed several things. Things that he has done or is in the process of doing. And all things that he said he would do. So, go ahead, please address any of them.
" As for morons, MAGA did not elect Trump. Independents and disenfranchised minority identity Dems did."
No, they provided the small percentage that helped him be victorious, but the vast majority of the votes come from MAGA. He received 3million more votes in 2024 than in 2020. Independents do not make up 70million voters.
" I was an air traffic controller for 25 years. Think you have what it takes to control airplanes." Cool, I don't care. You could have won a Nobel prize and that doesn't strengthen anything you are saying.
I don't need a crystal ball to tell you that: increased taxes for the poor and middle classes, increased costs for them due to tariffs, decreased support in medicaid and social security, and decreased federal support are bad things for them. How do you suppose those are good?
They didn't understand it. Most of the mouthbreathing Trump voters didn't even understand how tariffs work and instead thought that it's the country they import from who pays.
If you can explain how they will benefit from having to pay more while receiving less Government support, having increased income taxes, and living in a country where federal support is gone so they have to rely on underfunded state support (like lack of FEMA during a natural disaster) then I really want to hear it because it ought to be good.
There is a very simple and I think inevitable solution to this. The logical response is to cut out America and find other trading partners. The US is busy isolating itself. It is denying its own economy the benefit of the cheap goods and materials exported by the poor countries. Trump is mistaken if he thinks the rest of the world needs America. After the history of the last 100 years America has made no real friends around the world with its endless wars for resources, its 'regim change', its 'unipolar world'. Nobody likes a bully. America is digging its own grave. The BRICS countries are already constructing economic networks that trade with each other, and cease to use the dollar as their international currency.
The answer to that is surely for countries to simply stop paying. Better a borrower than a lender be. The US is unable to prevent - for example - the Chinese stepping in and lending money independently of the US.
Yes, if the entire World collaborates and changes the debt repayment structure then let the USA rot that would be a positive. Since the USA completely disregards any trade laws and agreements, they don't have a leg to stand on.
I think it’s a manufactured crisis to reduce the price of assets so the big boys can hover them up at knock down prices.
The Apples of this world have the resources, supply chain flexibility and access to Capital to adjust to changing circumstances. Smaller companies don’t, and they are the ones that will get picked off.
The sanctions imposed on Russia, in particular, on Russian Oligarchs, have helped the Russian economy such that both the workers and the middle class have increased their standard of living. This occurred because Britain and Europe seized the Oligarch's assets, like their London houses and football club, so Putin was able to persuade them to invest in Russia, their own country, instead, because The West could not be trusted. I think Trump is aiming for a similar result, his negotiator is a real-estate businessman, but with self-imposed sanctions.
Who has also gone bankrupt multiple times. Trump's tariffs are not going to help the middle or working class because they spend a large share of their income, and therefore are are proportionally more affected by the tariffs than the richest, who will benefit.
I think logic, trust, negotiating, and economics are out of date concepts at present in political circles. As are methodology, planning, petitions (results of), elections (forecasts of), court proceedings (results of), appeals (waiting lists length of), parliamentary privacy, Party solidarity (Party regardless), and limits on bribery amounts (always volatile). So perhaps Dan Brandt has a point after all.......sorry though it is to acknowledge it.
In the back ground and quietly, i hope the the UK, Canada, EU, Mexico and many others are working on an emergency Free Traid deal. Free Market capitalism has made the world vastly richer and reduced poverty to the lowest level in human history. Free trade is solution not the problem.
That's still within the framework of capitalism though, and we don't have unregulated capitalism anywhere. Much of the work that improved living standards was despite capitalism, not because of it. Workers' rights, 40 hours weeks, state holidays, etc. These are being eroded though as bargaining powers of the proletariat are being weakened.
The end result of capitalism is the increased concentration of wealth into the hands of the few, negative externalities paid by society and not those responsible, and a completely inhumane state of affairs where someone is only useful for Labour and once they stop being useful, they are disposed of.
Are you serious Tom? I assumed you were paking the piss. Reread the above please, I'm confused by the "still with in the framework " coment. It's a complete consequeter, I'm not sure your reply was to the comment I made. Maybe my friend, you can rephrase your question. Did you have a stressful week or did you start Fridays fun early? All the best sam
Thousands of people in the US are still homeless, very poor and sleep under bridges etc. On the other hand, China has now eliminated poverty in the whole of the country. If you look at the reality in most US cities, e.g. New York and San Francisco etc., the infrastructure is falling apart, and rough sleepers are everywhere. Go to large cities in Russia and China and you will see the opposite, clean streets, efficient transport.
It's similar to "you participate in society." You can take issue with things, while understanding that brash actions within a certain paradigm can have negative consequences when undertaken without thought.
AAV is I self declared Socialist. He is literally anti the free market. I fear your example on this occasion dose not cary much watter. Hope the sun is shining where you are sam
Socialism is very broad. If the workers owned the means of production -- which is an example of one -- how does that prevent trade exactly? I don't think anyone is purely one or the other, even capitalists. When you call yourself something, you are really talking about which side generally, you can't really summarise all your beliefs into one word which you didn't define.
It's dragon sickness. The thing is, the US using it's leverage to economically dominate the rest of the world is just business as usual, but Trump (and the section of the American psyche that he represents) is so deranged by his sense of entitlement and superiority that anything less than explicit subservience seems like being taken advantage of.
It’s just a guess but Trump’s imbecilic interpretation of economic facts is actually an intended one. In presenting such a simplified view of international trade he weaponizes it to stir anger, hatred and intolerance. It becomes an us versus them dichotomy.
"Liberal"? I'm not American, that's American language. Yeah, I call people who praise Trump's actions a moron, as that's why they are. You will of course not explain how any of the things I listed above will be good for the average American, or how the average American benefits from Trump's policies.
I listed several things. Things that he has done or is in the process of doing. And all things that he said he would do. So, go ahead, please address any of them.
" As for morons, MAGA did not elect Trump. Independents and disenfranchised minority identity Dems did."
No, they provided the small percentage that helped him be victorious, but the vast majority of the votes come from MAGA. He received 3million more votes in 2024 than in 2020. Independents do not make up 70million voters.
" I was an air traffic controller for 25 years. Think you have what it takes to control airplanes." Cool, I don't care. You could have won a Nobel prize and that doesn't strengthen anything you are saying.
I don't need a crystal ball to tell you that: increased taxes for the poor and middle classes, increased costs for them due to tariffs, decreased support in medicaid and social security, and decreased federal support are bad things for them. How do you suppose those are good?
Your argument is "people voted for it, it must be smart!" That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
They didn't understand it. Most of the mouthbreathing Trump voters didn't even understand how tariffs work and instead thought that it's the country they import from who pays.
If you can explain how they will benefit from having to pay more while receiving less Government support, having increased income taxes, and living in a country where federal support is gone so they have to rely on underfunded state support (like lack of FEMA during a natural disaster) then I really want to hear it because it ought to be good.
There is a very simple and I think inevitable solution to this. The logical response is to cut out America and find other trading partners. The US is busy isolating itself. It is denying its own economy the benefit of the cheap goods and materials exported by the poor countries. Trump is mistaken if he thinks the rest of the world needs America. After the history of the last 100 years America has made no real friends around the world with its endless wars for resources, its 'regim change', its 'unipolar world'. Nobody likes a bully. America is digging its own grave. The BRICS countries are already constructing economic networks that trade with each other, and cease to use the dollar as their international currency.
They problem is their debts obligations are pegged to the dollar including interest rates. This needs to end.
The answer to that is surely for countries to simply stop paying. Better a borrower than a lender be. The US is unable to prevent - for example - the Chinese stepping in and lending money independently of the US.
Yes, if the entire World collaborates and changes the debt repayment structure then let the USA rot that would be a positive. Since the USA completely disregards any trade laws and agreements, they don't have a leg to stand on.
I think it’s a manufactured crisis to reduce the price of assets so the big boys can hover them up at knock down prices.
The Apples of this world have the resources, supply chain flexibility and access to Capital to adjust to changing circumstances. Smaller companies don’t, and they are the ones that will get picked off.
The sanctions imposed on Russia, in particular, on Russian Oligarchs, have helped the Russian economy such that both the workers and the middle class have increased their standard of living. This occurred because Britain and Europe seized the Oligarch's assets, like their London houses and football club, so Putin was able to persuade them to invest in Russia, their own country, instead, because The West could not be trusted. I think Trump is aiming for a similar result, his negotiator is a real-estate businessman, but with self-imposed sanctions.
Who has also gone bankrupt multiple times. Trump's tariffs are not going to help the middle or working class because they spend a large share of their income, and therefore are are proportionally more affected by the tariffs than the richest, who will benefit.
You can't have a logical response to anything decided by a madman. Cutting him out would make more sense.
I think logic, trust, negotiating, and economics are out of date concepts at present in political circles. As are methodology, planning, petitions (results of), elections (forecasts of), court proceedings (results of), appeals (waiting lists length of), parliamentary privacy, Party solidarity (Party regardless), and limits on bribery amounts (always volatile). So perhaps Dan Brandt has a point after all.......sorry though it is to acknowledge it.
In the back ground and quietly, i hope the the UK, Canada, EU, Mexico and many others are working on an emergency Free Traid deal. Free Market capitalism has made the world vastly richer and reduced poverty to the lowest level in human history. Free trade is solution not the problem.
Very hard to quantify arguments like this as the meaning of what is "poverty" is not comparable between now and 2000 years ago.
Hi Tom, the UN collect very good data on this. Check out out world in data. And it is index link off course. Happy friday
https://ourworldindata.org/ here you go tom. I have always this about the best source. Cheers sam
That's still within the framework of capitalism though, and we don't have unregulated capitalism anywhere. Much of the work that improved living standards was despite capitalism, not because of it. Workers' rights, 40 hours weeks, state holidays, etc. These are being eroded though as bargaining powers of the proletariat are being weakened.
The end result of capitalism is the increased concentration of wealth into the hands of the few, negative externalities paid by society and not those responsible, and a completely inhumane state of affairs where someone is only useful for Labour and once they stop being useful, they are disposed of.
"Disposed of" what do you mean my Friend? Not many extermintion camps for the elderly where I live. Maybe they are all in Yorkshire?
Yeah, we don't live in a purely capitalist society if you didn't notice. We have a social safety net (which is being eroded).
Are you serious Tom? I assumed you were paking the piss. Reread the above please, I'm confused by the "still with in the framework " coment. It's a complete consequeter, I'm not sure your reply was to the comment I made. Maybe my friend, you can rephrase your question. Did you have a stressful week or did you start Fridays fun early? All the best sam
Thousands of people in the US are still homeless, very poor and sleep under bridges etc. On the other hand, China has now eliminated poverty in the whole of the country. If you look at the reality in most US cities, e.g. New York and San Francisco etc., the infrastructure is falling apart, and rough sleepers are everywhere. Go to large cities in Russia and China and you will see the opposite, clean streets, efficient transport.
It's funny how Trump has turned AAV and his acolytes into free market champions!
It's funny you think this is somehow a smart comment.
Just pointing out the irony, my friend and it makes my smile. Have a good weekend sam
It's similar to "you participate in society." You can take issue with things, while understanding that brash actions within a certain paradigm can have negative consequences when undertaken without thought.
AAV is I self declared Socialist. He is literally anti the free market. I fear your example on this occasion dose not cary much watter. Hope the sun is shining where you are sam
Socialism is very broad. If the workers owned the means of production -- which is an example of one -- how does that prevent trade exactly? I don't think anyone is purely one or the other, even capitalists. When you call yourself something, you are really talking about which side generally, you can't really summarise all your beliefs into one word which you didn't define.
Tom, I can't tell if you're pulling my leg, you made me laugh out loud on the train. It's Friday go and have pint, all the best
Put him in prison where he belongs?
It's dragon sickness. The thing is, the US using it's leverage to economically dominate the rest of the world is just business as usual, but Trump (and the section of the American psyche that he represents) is so deranged by his sense of entitlement and superiority that anything less than explicit subservience seems like being taken advantage of.
It’s just a guess but Trump’s imbecilic interpretation of economic facts is actually an intended one. In presenting such a simplified view of international trade he weaponizes it to stir anger, hatred and intolerance. It becomes an us versus them dichotomy.
This is too big to be mere stupidity.
Granted, i doubt Trump fully understands the reasoning behind these moves but somebody does and this is a play.
It may well crash the world economy into a new depression but some fucker will benefit from the catastrophe...