Starmer said he "gets it" after the dismal results started coming in, but then demonstrated he doesn't by cosying up to genocide profiteers, failing to admit errors, and promising more of the same!
I wish people would look to anyone other than reform for this though. Independents, greens, heck I would prefer LibDems and I was AT university during the student "riots".
A lot of people are naturally left wing but are not interested in politics enough to pay attention. There are a lot of stretched truths and downright lying going on on social media at the moment and a lot of the people who can vote really fall for it. And the mainstream parties aren't helping by talking about Reform like they are a threat. Because if people want rid of 2 party politics all they're hearing from Labour and conservatives is that they've got reform snapping at their heels. They don't talk about the libdem uprising or greens. Reform got like 4(?) seats in the general election and they've been talking about it like it's a threat ever since. That's basically telling people if they want to get rid of the 2 parties reform is the answer. It's a really bad move.
True enough - we need to big up the alternatives rather than banging on about Reform. I fear you have a more optimistic view of human nature than I do, however!
A lot of the danger has been propelled by the two main parties shrieking "what are we going to do about reform". If no one likes you, and you've told everyone who you're most afraid of, they're gonna vote for that guy. 🤷♀️ I'm not saying that's the sole reason. I'm just saying it's definitely not helping.
I think Reform, Labour and the Tories are in it together. Reform are being groomed by the other two and the MSM, just like Labour were before the last GE.
I don't think they need to be groomed. Most of them are old conservatives and Farage is grooming the media from the looks of things. Always picking out his pinstripes and talking like he's gonna burst into song. The media love that shit. He reminds me of the bad guy from Pete's Dragon. I can see him singing "money money money by the pound". I don't understand why no one else sees it. 😂
Well. Reform are offering a narrative that offers a sense of some sort of solutions. They’re the wrong narratives and not solutions at all. But populism works.
Lib dems and even greens are soft, and, appeal to middle class sensibilities. Farage and the lot are also very good at using the media and using discursive techniques too.
I wish people would look to others. But the problem is the “others” are not providing a convincing narrative to even compete with the Reform one.
Yeah I see that. There's a lot of rephrasing going on to make a lot of very NOT working class things sound working class. The divisive language is pinpointed to making the conversation difficult to have in a civil manner.
I'm stuck on something Peston said after this election. He said if you add it all together the country is more left wing than it is right wing. But the parties don't seem to want to work together. Labour is moving too far right so the left wing vote is becoming fragmented across multiple parties. A graph came out today on an opinion poll that says something like 40% of labour voters are likely to vote green and slightly less are likely to vote lib Dems. So it might not be as gloomy as I first thought.
Imo it's a stitch up. Labour knew this would happen. It now gives them an excuse to go harder and faster with cuts and privatisation, their real goal. They're not interested in being in power in the long term, only on getting rich quick. They were bought and paid for.
Honestly I don't know. I would hope it would not be any of that cabal of crooks. We still have some decent left wing labour MPs, I'm not sure if they're on the front benches though. But without this we are heading fro a reform Tory coalition at the next GE and we'll be the next to be ravaged American style
Richard Burgon. Although like anyone in opposition to full-on neoliberalism, the Right wing press would crucify him and the secret services would be a threat to his life.
I mean I think the left needs to leave labour at this point. Starmer and his group effectively dismanteled the labour left and seemingly took the whole party down with it.
But a realistic figure, from simply a political perspective, could be someone like Burnham would make sense and be more digestable. But that would most likely come after an election. Rayner on paper would make a lot of sense, and suprisingly has a better favourability rating than most labour MPs, but reality is she would get crusified. Ed Milliband, is the most popular labour minister and probably wouldn’t make the worst choice politically. Someone like Wes Streeting or Reeves would potentially doom the labour party.
Very true - and very probably with the intention of destroying the Labour party. That despicable representation of humanity has a few more years to stick the final nail in the coffin and see it buried forever.
Disability cuts and child benefit cap too. I agree that most reform voters don't care about Gaza, but a lot of labour voters do and can't bring themselves to vote for labour
A lot of Reform voters only care about getting rid of all the brown and black people. They pretend to care about the old, but Farage would be just as willing to starve and freeze us.
Keith will swing even further to the right now, thinking it’ll please those voters. No more Tory Light, he’ll take Labour to the next level: Reform Diet.
And Reform voters will NEVER vote Labour because they regard them as the party of benefits scroungers, immigration etc etc. They hero-worship the rich and despise the poor, among other charming qualities. This is what Labour are now pandering to.
I don’t think that’s exactly true. I think the narrative of “Cutting heating to pensioners to fund hotels for illegal immigrants” is a powerful narrative, and a lot of reforms surge comes from people who would traditionally vote labour.
I'm afraid I stick with what I said. "Cutting heating for pensioners to fund hotels for illegal immigrants" is not how the powerful actually work, and the fact that Reform voters do not understand that shows that they are not well-versed in class politics, which is unlikely for Labour supporters. Most Reform voters are traditional Right wingers. Collective narcissism also plays an important role here, (I sent
I suspect Starmer does "get it", and things are going exactly as he and his right-win g backers planned. Here's a couple of possibilities: 1) Starmer and his backers don't care about getting re-elected as their sole goal is to drive the population as far right as possible, or 2) Starmer and his backers have set this up so they can use the support for Reform as a reason to go further right, maybe further than Reform, and try to win the next election from that fascist position. Whatever the plan, I cannot imagine that Starmer and his backers are so stupid that they don't "get it". Somehow, this is all part of the plan. Unfortunately, it's the true progressives who don't get it if they believe there is any value or truth in anything the Labour leadership does.
I think this is giving a lot more credit to the labour right than it’s worth. Their main priority was to destroy the left in the party. They did that. Now they are LARPing some 3rd way blairite stuff, much in the same way Cameron did. But they are doing it because they genuinely think it is electorally successful. They believe competency = cosing up to corporations, like New Labour did, and believe they can sell austerity like Cameron did.
They don’t understand the political climate or the current state of the UK, and are extremely incompetent. There is no higher plan or vision. There is no vision. Full stop.
He says he wants to go further and faster - but if he did "get it" which he quite clearly doesn't, he would see that it isn't speed or distance that is the problem, but the direction, which is completely wrong.
Starmer has never got anything and the public, in general, don’t seem to want him to carry on. Watching him talk, without my extremely powerful hearing aids I usually can’t hear him at all, I am filled with a strong desire to do something powerful and illegal to him. Plus, he’s difficult to lip read.
Much of this is far left bigotry, hating Keir Starmer because Corbyn is a failure.
I am elderly and disabled. My pension and PIP have been increased, not cut.
The success of #NastyNaziNigel is a combination of broken systems from 14years of the #corruptCONservatives and the constant undermining of the Labour government from both left and right. You mention greedy water company bosses. Labour have legislated to make them directly accountable, they can now be prevented from receiving bonuses, fined or even imprisoned. Under the #corruptCONservatives Offwat didn't prosecute, now they have been instructed that they must take action. The Railways have been taken into public ownership, Great British Energy are driving forward renewable energy.
If he had “got it” he would be in Moscow right now, on his knees before President Putin, begging for forgiveness. And asking to be allowed a small contingent at the parade.
I wish people would look to anyone other than reform for this though. Independents, greens, heck I would prefer LibDems and I was AT university during the student "riots".
Reform appeal to the Authoritarian Third - there's no way anyone left of centre, or even centre, would ever appeal to them.
A lot of people are naturally left wing but are not interested in politics enough to pay attention. There are a lot of stretched truths and downright lying going on on social media at the moment and a lot of the people who can vote really fall for it. And the mainstream parties aren't helping by talking about Reform like they are a threat. Because if people want rid of 2 party politics all they're hearing from Labour and conservatives is that they've got reform snapping at their heels. They don't talk about the libdem uprising or greens. Reform got like 4(?) seats in the general election and they've been talking about it like it's a threat ever since. That's basically telling people if they want to get rid of the 2 parties reform is the answer. It's a really bad move.
True enough - we need to big up the alternatives rather than banging on about Reform. I fear you have a more optimistic view of human nature than I do, however!
No I'm just too polite to write it out in words. 😂
It's because Reform are the danger.
Yes they had 4 seats but got 4million votes. Compared to Lib Dems 3.5M who won 72 seats.
If you don't think Reform are the danger wait for the Welsh and Scottish elections.
You are right tho, most people are naturally left but our media is mostly right so they just push that narrative.
A lot of the danger has been propelled by the two main parties shrieking "what are we going to do about reform". If no one likes you, and you've told everyone who you're most afraid of, they're gonna vote for that guy. 🤷♀️ I'm not saying that's the sole reason. I'm just saying it's definitely not helping.
I think Reform, Labour and the Tories are in it together. Reform are being groomed by the other two and the MSM, just like Labour were before the last GE.
I don't think they need to be groomed. Most of them are old conservatives and Farage is grooming the media from the looks of things. Always picking out his pinstripes and talking like he's gonna burst into song. The media love that shit. He reminds me of the bad guy from Pete's Dragon. I can see him singing "money money money by the pound". I don't understand why no one else sees it. 😂
Well. Reform are offering a narrative that offers a sense of some sort of solutions. They’re the wrong narratives and not solutions at all. But populism works.
Lib dems and even greens are soft, and, appeal to middle class sensibilities. Farage and the lot are also very good at using the media and using discursive techniques too.
I wish people would look to others. But the problem is the “others” are not providing a convincing narrative to even compete with the Reform one.
Yeah I see that. There's a lot of rephrasing going on to make a lot of very NOT working class things sound working class. The divisive language is pinpointed to making the conversation difficult to have in a civil manner.
I'm stuck on something Peston said after this election. He said if you add it all together the country is more left wing than it is right wing. But the parties don't seem to want to work together. Labour is moving too far right so the left wing vote is becoming fragmented across multiple parties. A graph came out today on an opinion poll that says something like 40% of labour voters are likely to vote green and slightly less are likely to vote lib Dems. So it might not be as gloomy as I first thought.
Imo it's a stitch up. Labour knew this would happen. It now gives them an excuse to go harder and faster with cuts and privatisation, their real goal. They're not interested in being in power in the long term, only on getting rich quick. They were bought and paid for.
We need a vote of no confidence. Are there enough labour MPs with any backbone?
Who would you have as Leader instead?
Honestly I don't know. I would hope it would not be any of that cabal of crooks. We still have some decent left wing labour MPs, I'm not sure if they're on the front benches though. But without this we are heading fro a reform Tory coalition at the next GE and we'll be the next to be ravaged American style
Richard Burgon. Although like anyone in opposition to full-on neoliberalism, the Right wing press would crucify him and the secret services would be a threat to his life.
I mean I think the left needs to leave labour at this point. Starmer and his group effectively dismanteled the labour left and seemingly took the whole party down with it.
But a realistic figure, from simply a political perspective, could be someone like Burnham would make sense and be more digestable. But that would most likely come after an election. Rayner on paper would make a lot of sense, and suprisingly has a better favourability rating than most labour MPs, but reality is she would get crusified. Ed Milliband, is the most popular labour minister and probably wouldn’t make the worst choice politically. Someone like Wes Streeting or Reeves would potentially doom the labour party.
Very true - and very probably with the intention of destroying the Labour party. That despicable representation of humanity has a few more years to stick the final nail in the coffin and see it buried forever.
People are voting reform because Labour still hasn't done anything about immigration and they are annoyed at the Winter Fuel Allowance.
Nobody voting Reform cares about Gaza.
Disability cuts and child benefit cap too. I agree that most reform voters don't care about Gaza, but a lot of labour voters do and can't bring themselves to vote for labour
A lot of Reform voters only care about getting rid of all the brown and black people. They pretend to care about the old, but Farage would be just as willing to starve and freeze us.
Keith will swing even further to the right now, thinking it’ll please those voters. No more Tory Light, he’ll take Labour to the next level: Reform Diet.
And Reform voters will NEVER vote Labour because they regard them as the party of benefits scroungers, immigration etc etc. They hero-worship the rich and despise the poor, among other charming qualities. This is what Labour are now pandering to.
I don’t think that’s exactly true. I think the narrative of “Cutting heating to pensioners to fund hotels for illegal immigrants” is a powerful narrative, and a lot of reforms surge comes from people who would traditionally vote labour.
But it appears that a majority of their votes are from disaffected Tories. I think many Labour voters didn't vote.
I'm afraid I stick with what I said. "Cutting heating for pensioners to fund hotels for illegal immigrants" is not how the powerful actually work, and the fact that Reform voters do not understand that shows that they are not well-versed in class politics, which is unlikely for Labour supporters. Most Reform voters are traditional Right wingers. Collective narcissism also plays an important role here, (I sent
a link to Richard about this).
I suspect Starmer does "get it", and things are going exactly as he and his right-win g backers planned. Here's a couple of possibilities: 1) Starmer and his backers don't care about getting re-elected as their sole goal is to drive the population as far right as possible, or 2) Starmer and his backers have set this up so they can use the support for Reform as a reason to go further right, maybe further than Reform, and try to win the next election from that fascist position. Whatever the plan, I cannot imagine that Starmer and his backers are so stupid that they don't "get it". Somehow, this is all part of the plan. Unfortunately, it's the true progressives who don't get it if they believe there is any value or truth in anything the Labour leadership does.
I think this is giving a lot more credit to the labour right than it’s worth. Their main priority was to destroy the left in the party. They did that. Now they are LARPing some 3rd way blairite stuff, much in the same way Cameron did. But they are doing it because they genuinely think it is electorally successful. They believe competency = cosing up to corporations, like New Labour did, and believe they can sell austerity like Cameron did.
They don’t understand the political climate or the current state of the UK, and are extremely incompetent. There is no higher plan or vision. There is no vision. Full stop.
He says he wants to go further and faster - but if he did "get it" which he quite clearly doesn't, he would see that it isn't speed or distance that is the problem, but the direction, which is completely wrong.
yes, he does. He just doesn't give a shit.
Starmer has never got anything and the public, in general, don’t seem to want him to carry on. Watching him talk, without my extremely powerful hearing aids I usually can’t hear him at all, I am filled with a strong desire to do something powerful and illegal to him. Plus, he’s difficult to lip read.
Much of this is far left bigotry, hating Keir Starmer because Corbyn is a failure.
I am elderly and disabled. My pension and PIP have been increased, not cut.
The success of #NastyNaziNigel is a combination of broken systems from 14years of the #corruptCONservatives and the constant undermining of the Labour government from both left and right. You mention greedy water company bosses. Labour have legislated to make them directly accountable, they can now be prevented from receiving bonuses, fined or even imprisoned. Under the #corruptCONservatives Offwat didn't prosecute, now they have been instructed that they must take action. The Railways have been taken into public ownership, Great British Energy are driving forward renewable energy.
Workers and unions have enhanced rights, private Landlords can no longer evict without cause.https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/the-five-ways-labour-are-making-the-wealthy-pay-more-tax-390650/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJFPT9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHcwHWk92tF5VpSjgRm5rg7awpE4SteCBje6Sdl-0PMWyO3asuljZeIwpvw_aem_ITm3OgtGugXe67tH1DwzXg
If he had “got it” he would be in Moscow right now, on his knees before President Putin, begging for forgiveness. And asking to be allowed a small contingent at the parade.