The police raid on Westminster Quaker Meeting House violated the principle of religious sanctuary and evoked the brutal state persecution of Quakerism in the past
My favourite quote from an article about this was one of the Elders who said something to the effect of 'I made a cup of tea and drank it in front of the police without offering them any'. So British, so Quaker <3
I suspect on reflection they may feel sorry for that and resolve to do better in future.
I suspect that many in the Quaker religion would agree that true change will only happen when organisations such as the met positively engage with the Quakers.
If for example an officer had approached the group and explained his situation. Rather than the door being kicked down, he may have had a rather large queue forming at the police station to hand over materials and report themselves.
I don't think this is "an attack on Quaker's" so much as the Met doing as they are told to "demonstrate the spectical of impartial enforcement."
(And no doubt being encouraged to kick a few shins and keep the trouble makers in check).
Agreed the police r just the establishment's bully boys. However the authors point is that this type of wouldnt have happened at a synagogue or mainstream christian church is a valid one 2 me (not sure re mosques tho nowdays)
its possible they were targeted so aggressively due 2 their pacifist, equal opportunity style faith which seems at odds with the current regimes christian soldier mentality. its also possible they were just seen as a soft target by this regimes bovver boys.
little did they know they wouldnt be offered a cuppa. for their rudeness. That'll teach them not 2 knock.
One of the things I was warning about in the run-up to the election was the likelihood that Labour would be more authoritarian and more draconian than the Tories. Partly because of rhetoric, partly the way Starmer runs Labour, but also because Labour can also serve as a convenient fig-leaf for the security state. Ostensibly centre-left parties can avoid scrutiny for actions like this, which would cause screaming panic in what's left of the centre-left press had this happened under a Tory government.
once they ousted corbin u knew they werent after positive change. ive come 2 the conclusion that the so called left side of the duopoly is worse than the other side. Sure up until now ordinary people got a few wins eg health care and education.
Sure theyre both there 2 run chrony capitalism. But in terms of military aggression i think the blue team/ "left" choice are worse than the red side since the 70s. The blue team r favoured by multinational rulers as they run capitalism and imperialism well, enabling massive wealth building plus waging aggressive actions quietly with huge strategic impacts - drone strikes, coups, big picture CIA capacity building 4 aggression in target countries.. Think Clinton pushing NATO east of Germany 6 months after his red team predecessor agreed never 2 do that.
Look at Australia under Labor - tithing a fortune 2 USA under AUKUS with debate stifled, rendering ourselves largely defenceless 4 nothing. We've effectively giving up our sovereignty and impoverished ourselves 4 future war v our major trading partner.
Beneath all that macho posturing and bluster on the red team is often poor management and a lack of strategic thinking as many senior players in the red team r put in senior roles 4 their religious views, sycophancy, war industry links and/or bankroll. Blessed b the holy hand grenade!
Add a gutted, cowered bureaucracy, resentful allies and bloated rent seeking defence industry and its a recipe 4 disaster militarily.
I was thinking this as I was posting. In my lifetime it's almost like 'left' parties have mostly been allowed in on order to further a level of military expansionism that would have been significantly more scrutinized under right-wing parties.
As Noam Chomsky said ur allowed 2 vigorously debate matters that fall within a small scope eg identity politics and social issues.
But no discussion is tolerated re any big picture issues outside the range of acceptable topics eg the current genocide and impotence of international bodies 2 enforce laws.
I am horrified by this news. Given what is currently happening in America where people are being detained without due process and sent to Louisiana then heaven knows where, plus the attack on human rights in the UK, the demonising of “Lefty Lawyers” and the refusal by Labour to rescind the Tory anti-protest laws, it is also very worrying. I read something the other day about being at war over Fascism but this time we’ll be the bad guys and Germany will be the good guys. It was said in jest but, well, who knows where this will all end.
Tell me you have no common sense without telling me you have no common sense. The ridiculous decisions by some judges are beyond a joke. An insane or corrupt judge recently stopped a man's deportation because his son did not like foreign chicken nuggets. If you agree with that you are an extreme lefty nut I wouldn't want in Britain, we already have too many lunatics.
Tell me you believe everything you read in the Mail without telling me you believe everything you read in the Mail.
That case was seriously misrepresented, the boy has autism which causes him unbearable sensory issues and the judge ruled it would be unduly harsh to deport him to somewhere he would become severely traumatised. So, again, the thing about human rights? Only for the rich and white and male people of the world?
Maybe not, but you’ll see the headlines. And if you want to call me a Lefty Loony, then that’s up to you, but I will not apologise for caring about others, wanting a fairer society and giving everyone a chance to be treated with dignity and respect, regardless of race, colour, creed, gender, sexual orientation and disability. And, no, I’m not quaking in my shoes because you called me a lunatic. I think I’ll get over it pretty quickly.
What is so wrong in the world that empathy and compassion have become dirty words?
I am sorry to hear your daughter has Autism (I do too, as does my son) and I hope she gets the very best care she needs. I wish her and her mother all the best.
Thank you for a good debate, but that’s me out now. I hope you have a great life.
So the British Government is channeling the persecutions of the Quakers from the 17th Century. Charming. The last time they went all out like that their King ended up losing his head.
Where are your Levellers? Where are your Chartists? Is there no 21st Century Cromwell waiting in the wings?
They allowed premises be used to discuss civil disobedience as peaceful protest.
I agree Let's be clear why the police saw fit to break down a door rather than simply arrest while leaving. Or indeed attend an open meeting and arrest once in progress.
The manner and circumstances of the arrest must surely be taken into consideration as much as the actual legalities of the arrest itself?
So many have commented on here about Quakers deing ill treated when they weren't. My grandmother was a Quaker and she would not have approved of what was permitted here on Quaker premises. I admit the police were heavy handed, could have been handled better .
Correction--they allowed their premises to be used by people the British Government doesn't like. I would think "moron" would more typically apply to people the government does like.
Thank you for such a well informed piece. I'm a Quaker and have been greatly heartened by the reactions of so many groups to the actions of the police.
This is nothing to do with Quakers but dissidents using their building. My grandmother was a Quaker and she would have strongly disapproved of these specimens being allowed on their premises.
"Peace-loving Quakers under state attack" toilet tom. It's like sayings "village under attack" because a police suspect booked the village hall and was arested there.
I thought I could no longer be shocked by police state that is Khan’s London and Starmer’s Britain but this is just abhorrent and beyond the pale. Quakers are the most peaceful people. This is like kicking in the doors of a Buddhist temple. Disgusting.
I have always respected the Quaker practices and have visited some of their meeting houses. This is a group who can say that they have generally been on the right side of history. It is a sad day that this has happened and a worry that such violations of fundamental rights of political participation and protest should be occurring.
My favourite quote from an article about this was one of the Elders who said something to the effect of 'I made a cup of tea and drank it in front of the police without offering them any'. So British, so Quaker <3
I suspect on reflection they may feel sorry for that and resolve to do better in future.
I suspect that many in the Quaker religion would agree that true change will only happen when organisations such as the met positively engage with the Quakers.
If for example an officer had approached the group and explained his situation. Rather than the door being kicked down, he may have had a rather large queue forming at the police station to hand over materials and report themselves.
I don't think this is "an attack on Quaker's" so much as the Met doing as they are told to "demonstrate the spectical of impartial enforcement."
(And no doubt being encouraged to kick a few shins and keep the trouble makers in check).
Agreed the police r just the establishment's bully boys. However the authors point is that this type of wouldnt have happened at a synagogue or mainstream christian church is a valid one 2 me (not sure re mosques tho nowdays)
its possible they were targeted so aggressively due 2 their pacifist, equal opportunity style faith which seems at odds with the current regimes christian soldier mentality. its also possible they were just seen as a soft target by this regimes bovver boys.
little did they know they wouldnt be offered a cuppa. for their rudeness. That'll teach them not 2 knock.
‘…Christian soldier…’? Atheist soldier maybe. Nothing Christian about Starmer.
Idiot, this had nothing to do with Quakers, check facts before opening mouth.
My understanding of the comments section is that we add perspectives and information 2 help all of us gain a better understanding of an issue.
Id b grateful if u could provide further information so i can learn about this issue
The people arrested were not Quakers .
The people arrested were not Quakers, they were people planning to cause trouble. The manner of their arrest can be discussed.
That is very unBritish, it is very rude not to offer someone tea. Where are you from to make such a silly observation.
One of the things I was warning about in the run-up to the election was the likelihood that Labour would be more authoritarian and more draconian than the Tories. Partly because of rhetoric, partly the way Starmer runs Labour, but also because Labour can also serve as a convenient fig-leaf for the security state. Ostensibly centre-left parties can avoid scrutiny for actions like this, which would cause screaming panic in what's left of the centre-left press had this happened under a Tory government.
once they ousted corbin u knew they werent after positive change. ive come 2 the conclusion that the so called left side of the duopoly is worse than the other side. Sure up until now ordinary people got a few wins eg health care and education.
Sure theyre both there 2 run chrony capitalism. But in terms of military aggression i think the blue team/ "left" choice are worse than the red side since the 70s. The blue team r favoured by multinational rulers as they run capitalism and imperialism well, enabling massive wealth building plus waging aggressive actions quietly with huge strategic impacts - drone strikes, coups, big picture CIA capacity building 4 aggression in target countries.. Think Clinton pushing NATO east of Germany 6 months after his red team predecessor agreed never 2 do that.
Look at Australia under Labor - tithing a fortune 2 USA under AUKUS with debate stifled, rendering ourselves largely defenceless 4 nothing. We've effectively giving up our sovereignty and impoverished ourselves 4 future war v our major trading partner.
Beneath all that macho posturing and bluster on the red team is often poor management and a lack of strategic thinking as many senior players in the red team r put in senior roles 4 their religious views, sycophancy, war industry links and/or bankroll. Blessed b the holy hand grenade!
Add a gutted, cowered bureaucracy, resentful allies and bloated rent seeking defence industry and its a recipe 4 disaster militarily.
I was thinking this as I was posting. In my lifetime it's almost like 'left' parties have mostly been allowed in on order to further a level of military expansionism that would have been significantly more scrutinized under right-wing parties.
As Noam Chomsky said ur allowed 2 vigorously debate matters that fall within a small scope eg identity politics and social issues.
But no discussion is tolerated re any big picture issues outside the range of acceptable topics eg the current genocide and impotence of international bodies 2 enforce laws.
Yep, that quote has never been more apt or relevant.
I am horrified by this news. Given what is currently happening in America where people are being detained without due process and sent to Louisiana then heaven knows where, plus the attack on human rights in the UK, the demonising of “Lefty Lawyers” and the refusal by Labour to rescind the Tory anti-protest laws, it is also very worrying. I read something the other day about being at war over Fascism but this time we’ll be the bad guys and Germany will be the good guys. It was said in jest but, well, who knows where this will all end.
Lefty lawyers and judges are a curse.
Tell me you have no compassion for others without telling me you have no compassion for others.
Tell me you have no common sense without telling me you have no common sense. The ridiculous decisions by some judges are beyond a joke. An insane or corrupt judge recently stopped a man's deportation because his son did not like foreign chicken nuggets. If you agree with that you are an extreme lefty nut I wouldn't want in Britain, we already have too many lunatics.
Tell me you believe everything you read in the Mail without telling me you believe everything you read in the Mail.
That case was seriously misrepresented, the boy has autism which causes him unbearable sensory issues and the judge ruled it would be unduly harsh to deport him to somewhere he would become severely traumatised. So, again, the thing about human rights? Only for the rich and white and male people of the world?
What a load of rubbish. The boy would be with his family. My daughter has autism and her mother took her off to Switzerland
The father an unpleasant specimen we don't want in Britain. I don't read the Mail because I refuse to pay.
Maybe not, but you’ll see the headlines. And if you want to call me a Lefty Loony, then that’s up to you, but I will not apologise for caring about others, wanting a fairer society and giving everyone a chance to be treated with dignity and respect, regardless of race, colour, creed, gender, sexual orientation and disability. And, no, I’m not quaking in my shoes because you called me a lunatic. I think I’ll get over it pretty quickly.
What is so wrong in the world that empathy and compassion have become dirty words?
I am sorry to hear your daughter has Autism (I do too, as does my son) and I hope she gets the very best care she needs. I wish her and her mother all the best.
Thank you for a good debate, but that’s me out now. I hope you have a great life.
"Freedom of speech"? More like "thou shalt not criticise the neoliberals and their imperialist works".
its that old saying innit, if u think u have freedom of speech try exercising it.
Yep.
So the British Government is channeling the persecutions of the Quakers from the 17th Century. Charming. The last time they went all out like that their King ended up losing his head.
Where are your Levellers? Where are your Chartists? Is there no 21st Century Cromwell waiting in the wings?
Wake up, this had nothing to do with Quaker religion, they allowed their premises to be used by morons.
They allowed premises be used to discuss civil disobedience as peaceful protest.
I agree Let's be clear why the police saw fit to break down a door rather than simply arrest while leaving. Or indeed attend an open meeting and arrest once in progress.
The manner and circumstances of the arrest must surely be taken into consideration as much as the actual legalities of the arrest itself?
I agree the arrest could have been handled much better.
How do you know Paul? Please enlighten us with facts. Where you there?
Can't you read, the people arrested were not Quakers.
Thanks for your friendly reply Paul.
So many have commented on here about Quakers deing ill treated when they weren't. My grandmother was a Quaker and she would not have approved of what was permitted here on Quaker premises. I admit the police were heavy handed, could have been handled better .
Thanks for clarifying.
Correction--they allowed their premises to be used by people the British Government doesn't like. I would think "moron" would more typically apply to people the government does like.
No sane person likes these people. So do you like them or not? The way the police handled it is another matter.
Utterly shocking behaviour. Under a Labour government😱
Thank you for such a well informed piece. I'm a Quaker and have been greatly heartened by the reactions of so many groups to the actions of the police.
This is nothing to do with Quakers but dissidents using their building. My grandmother was a Quaker and she would have strongly disapproved of these specimens being allowed on their premises.
"Peace-loving Quakers under state attack" toilet tom. It's like sayings "village under attack" because a police suspect booked the village hall and was arested there.
I always suspected Starmer wore blue underpants...
You are confused, in Europe and many other countries red is communist and blue is conservative.
The political independence of the UK police has been a complete fiction since the 1980s at the latest.
I thought I could no longer be shocked by police state that is Khan’s London and Starmer’s Britain but this is just abhorrent and beyond the pale. Quakers are the most peaceful people. This is like kicking in the doors of a Buddhist temple. Disgusting.
I have always respected the Quaker practices and have visited some of their meeting houses. This is a group who can say that they have generally been on the right side of history. It is a sad day that this has happened and a worry that such violations of fundamental rights of political participation and protest should be occurring.
Isn't Starmer's wife and Jew? Or a zionist?
Check facts, this had nothing to do with Quakers.